Laying the Foundation for Anti-racism

This episode explores the foundational questions we all need to asks ourselves as we embark on this journey of anti-racism together within the context of the interpreting profession. 

Transcript

Welcome to, If I'm Honest, on today's episode, we're gonna lay the groundwork for what anti-racism is. And so I wanna talk about what anti-racism is and what it's not. A k a performativity, uh, things you just say or do some checklists you might check off to say, oh, I've done the thing that I'm supposed to do.

Right? And then finally, I wanna talk about recovery. So what's gonna happen is white people absolutely are going to fuck up. Mistakes happen. That's just natural part of human nature. And so how does an anti-racist recover? Well, and that's what we're gonna talk about today. So come on in the room, let's talk about it.

Welcome to, if I'm honest, a podcast where we address and discuss issues within the sign language interpreting profession. Using an anti-racist lens here, we intentionally take up space. We say the thing, we named the things that previously haven't been named an effort to change, challenge and dismantle problematic narratives within our profession.

And we do it because an anti-racist interpreter is just a better interpreter period. My name is keisha osborne, and I have been an interpreter for over a decade, and I've been having these conversations on an individual level my entire career. I think it's high time that we expand the conversation to include you.

Let's talk about it. 

All right, so let's get into it. So when I was doing the episode planning for this particular episode, I asked myself, what do people who are brand new on the anti-racism journey need to know? And what do people who have been on this journey for any time need to be reminded of? And I think the answer to that question is you have to ask yourself, who are you in the dark right when no one's watching?

When you don't have a stage or an audience, who are you in the dark? All right, so before we move forward in the vein of answering the question of who are we in the dark, it's important that we understand that anti-racism is a fight against white supremacy and white supremacy culture, right? And so white supremacy is the house and foundation.

It is the umbrella for all bigotry and all forms of oppression. What we're attempting to do on this journey is to dismantle and unpack the white supremacy in us, and that means that we dismantle our implicit and explicit biases, but also the problematic ways of our own conditioning, right? Because if we don't, it shows up in the work.

In order to illustrate this point, I'm gonna tell you two stories. The first story is several years ago I took a job in Virginia and it was an all day business meeting of several organizations coming together to conduct some business, right? Um, largely the members of this meeting are black and brown, and the person running the meeting is a black woman.

Okay? So my team is a white gay man and in order to capture, in air quotes the spirit of her message, my team was rolling his neck. To me, it wasn't just cringey, right? It was downright offensive because one, as a black woman and a linguist, I know that the neck roll has a function. Number two, what the fuck are you trying to say about this black woman?

What the fuck are you trying to say about black women? Right? And he didn't know that his capturing the spirit of her message was perpetuating racist  tropes about black women, right? So who are you in the dark? What thoughts? Are you thinking in the dark? What unconscious biases do you have in the dark?

What belief systems do you have in the dark, right, because they show up in the light. All right, so the second story I wanna tell you, I think illustrates, uh, the unconscious and implicit biases in our field, but also that show up in the work. And so I can remember a time that I was at Sorenson and I was called over to be a team.

And when I get there, I ask my team, what support do you need? And she says, I need help with the ASL because this black deaf woman is using, she has minimal language skills. And that's the first issue, right? I my ITPs, either one of them at Gallaudet or at um, Eastern Kentucky University, was not exposed to Black ASL as a bonafide dialect of asl, right?

 And so this Black Deaf woman is using a dialect of ASL and is being diagnosed with minimal language skill. And I'm not exactly sure why these ITPs thought it prudent to empower L2 learners who are not cultural members of, of a group of people who have minimal understanding of the language at all.

Why they thought it prudent for us to be able to diagnose someone's language proficiency, but also their intellect, which I think is the subtext. And so you have this woman who not only has been misdiagnosed, but is also being misrepresented. So context for this call is this Black Deaf woman is calling the non-emergency police line to let them know that her truant son has come home and has picked up his phone and left, right.

She tried to stop him. And you know, with truancy, if your child does not show up to school like they're supposed to, the parent is held responsible, right? And so she's calling the police to say, Hey, like, I tried to keep him, I couldn't keep him. Um, Go and get him. This is where he normally hangs out. Uh, but don't go over there in your police uniform with your lights on, uh, and make him aware because he's gonna run right.

And so, To illustrate this point right? To, to communicate this point. She's using the signs smart. But because my team doesn't understand culturally or situationally, she doesn't have any background knowledge, she doesn't understand what the conversation is happening. She's making this Black Deaf woman sound like, um, she's talking about the grades on her son's report card, right?

She's saying, oh, he's so smart. Right, so she's now misrepresenting this woman's language, but also her intellect, and I can remember feeling like, oh my God, that I literally reach over and mute the call and say, I'll take it from here. This is a clear example of how the biases and problematic ways of our beliefs and our systems show up in the work.

She believed that this woman had minimal language, so what are the implications of that on the interpretation of her message? As you lay the foundation for your journey and you're thinking about what decisions you make, what thoughts you think, what beliefs you hold, I also want you to think about the areas in which you're silent and you should not be, because silence is an answer, and silence means complicity.

You can't ignore systems and the experiences of other humans and worldviews and perspectives and not be complicit in their demise. Right. So if you're not intentionally dismantling the system, you're an agent of leaving it in place, you're like literally holding up the foundation. That's your contribution, right?

And so you have to consider the ways that you are the problem. Other things that you should be considering as you're trying to answer this question is like, what are you reading? Like what content are you consuming in order to recondintion yourself appropriately? Is it just this podcast because like I have no intention on spoon-feeding you the answers.

I just wanna talk about the ways that I've been harmed in this field. I wanna talk about the harm that I've seen done to other black and brown people in this field. I wanna talk about the ways that I've also caused harm in this field, right? I wanna platform voices who have similar experiences to my own. I wanna provide a variety of perspectives on this issue. 

If this is the only thing you're consuming, you're not consuming enough, and so what are you consuming? And then finally, what does your circle look like? Like who are your friends? Is it just that your best friend's, mother's, cousin's, neighbor in Clarksville, Indiana that you met in the third grade is black?

Or are you more involved and your actual best friend is black, but you don't see color? Like what does your circle look like and what does that say about you on this journey? Is it all white? Do you have any diverse perspectives? How are you able to see the world through other people's perspectives if you don't have people with other perspectives in your life?

Just like, think about that for a minute. How you can understand how I see the world if I'm not in your life. And don't mean me, keisha, I mean black people. I mean brown people, right? Like what does your circle look like? All right, so we've talked about what anti-racism is in terms of identity, but I also wanna talk about what anti-racism is not in terms of performativity, right?

And so performativity is the disconnect with who you are in the dark and what you do in the light. Right, and one of the things that I've noticed perpetually over and over again while working with anti-racist white interpreters in group settings is that white interpreters want a checklist. Tell me what to do.

Tell me what to say. Tell me why I was wrong. Right? They want this kind of formulaic understanding of the do's and don'ts so that they can become a good anti-racist. But here's the thing, if we just take the concept from interpreting, we know that formulaic interpretations don't work. There is no such thing as a one size fits all.

If we show up into a space and we provide a formulaic interpretation, it might be the difference of providing access and not providing access. Right. That formulaic interpretation is inaccessible to somebody, which is the first problem. The second problem is it's disingenuous. So I'm currently working with a group of white interpreters who are at varying degrees of their anti-racism journey, and we were talking about the notion of diversity hire, and because I don't know where you are in your journey, let me explain to you why the concept of a diversity hire is problematic.

It's problematic because it's completely reductive. That individual is being hired on the basis of their race and their job, but the other dynamics, the things that they bring to the table. Don't matter. It's like throwing out someone resume and saying, black interpreter, boom. Got it. And this is a thing that we see show up regularly in Black History Month when all these agencies are calling and saying, Hey, I, I, I need a black interpreter.

Could you do this job for me? It's reductive. You ain't called on me all year until I check specific boxes. Well, what I actually bring to the table, my life history, my background, I have a master's degree. I'm working on a doctorate. I've worked in specific fields for long periods of time. Because you don't know me, you don't wanna know me, you don't draw on me.

And times where I bring something really important to the table and I'm black, you just reduced me down to. Black History Month, that's fucking problematic, right? So I'm talking to them about that, and one of the interpreters says, okay, so we shouldn't say diversity higher. That's bad. So what should we say when we actually are looking for a black interpreter to diversify and be inclusive of our space?

And the thing is, It's what I just said, right? Like a matter of allowing a person to have a dynamic, professional background and honoring them. See white interpreters often because they're the default, get to be this dynamic person. So-and-so has worked in this field for 14 years. Let's call her. So-and-so is a CODA.

Her dad did such and such and such and such. Let's call on her. It is not just the ability to be seen but known, and if you don't have. Diversity in your circle. If you don't have black interpreters in your circle, if you don't know black interpreters, and I don't mean no, like on this rudimentary level I'm talking about, no, as in relationship, you don't know that they're probably the better fit for the job because you don't know them.

And that's problematic. And so when you're just operating in this, what are the do's and don'ts? Oh, we wanna be more inclusive, so let's hire a black interpreter. But we don't actually know any black interpreters. What happens is you sometimes bring people in the space that aren't even qualified because they checked two boxes and then it's cyclical.

So then you say, oh, we tried, or black interpreters aren't qualified for this work. And that leads into a number. Of problems, right? And so that's the issue with performativity is that it just creates more problems. The final thing I wanna talk about that I think is really foundational to the journey of being anti-racist is how you show up when you cause harm.

And so there's this performative thing that I've seen white people do who are on this journey. It is this ownership of I'm racist because I'm white. And for some who are actually not doing the work, it's the equivalent of saying you're sorry without saying why. It's like taking ownership of something without understanding your responsibility.

And I can remember growing up and in my house if my mom was responsible for making me apologize, I wasn't taking the ownership for what I did, she'd say, what do you say? And I, and I'd say, I'm sorry. And she'd say, for what? Right. And I'd say for this thing that I did. And so I think what is really important about, um, being on this journey is not just understanding the, what you did that was problematic, but why what you did was problematic and why you did the shit in the first place.

You can easily say, I did it because I'm white. Right. And I think that it might be fair, but I think what's more honest is to understand your actual thought process behind the harm that you cause. And here's the thing, keisha has an anti-shame approach to this journey, right? Like it really is my approach and I, I, I don't think that it's productive to say that you are bad just because you're white.

And I'm gonna keep saying that, right? Because I think white people need to hear it. I think that what you are predisposed to as a result of being white and how you are conditioned as a result of being white and perpetuating those behaviors is what make you bad, right? Like you, all of that can be unlearned and changed.

I think it's important to talk about the reality that in America, the kind of harm that has been caused by white people on black and brown people. The kind of arm that's been caused from hearing people on deaf people is so significant that we will meet people who just hate white people. Right. Like we have met those deaf people who hate hearing people.

We work with some CDIs that hate hearing people, right? They don't give a fuck that we are interpreters. They don't give a fuck if you are a CODA. They hate your ass because of the oppression that you represent and the trauma that someone like you has caused them in the past. Right? And so the question that you have to answer here is how do you show up?

When you are a representative of someone's trauma, how do you show up when you are the person responsible for causing the harm? Right? Like are you saying "Yep, I did it cause I'm white!" or are you saying I'm sorry? And I feel like people don't know how to apologize and take ownership of the shit that they did.

Uh, one of my best friends, she's white and um, we have a history of before we were the kind of friends that we are today of having harm that was caused between us, right? And she would cause me harm. And at the beginning, she wouldn't take any real ownership of that shit. She wasn't taking any responsibility.

She was giving me a rote response. Like I, and I can remember, I can remember a specific time when, um, I was working for an agency, um, that she was the manager of interpreters for, and she called me because the agency, the, the, the government agency told her that I was late to work. Right. They told her I was late on this day, and because interpreters are late and they just don't report that shit all the time, she didn't do her checks and balances.

She did not check and see if the job number that the agency reported to her. Matched job numbers that were on my, my ledger of jobs that I had done for the agency, right? So she didn't do her checks and balances. And when I checked her on it, cause I felt real gross about it, I felt like I wasn't even there that day.

And for those of you saying, oh, keisha, it was just a clerical error. How and how many of those clerical errors, right, disproportionately impact black and brown interpreters? Like this was an on a day. I was accused of being late 15 minutes late and not reporting that to the, the interpreting agency on a day.

I wasn't even there. I was there that week. Sure. But I wasn't there that day. So how do you mistakenly put my name down? So now it raises a question of who was actually late. Like, I think there are so many questions that are unanswered that feel really gross. Was that interpreter black or brown? So the implications of that is that we all look alike.

Okay. Let's suppose that the interpreter who was actually late to the job that day is white. What are the implications of that? What I think the answer is, is that whatever happened here in this mix up is extremely problematic and probably racist. Right? And so instead of my friend being able to stop the foolishness before it got to me and caused me harm because what the actual fuck, she becomes a conduit.

At the time, my friend didn't do a good job of doing her due diligence. She didn't dot her I's and cross her t's. She didn't make sure everything was on the up and up with what the information that she was given. And what she said was in her apology was like, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. Like it was my mistake.

I screwed up. I should have checked. But she didn't consider the implications of my lived experience as a black woman. Right of being accused of being late to a job on a day that I wasn't even there. Right? She didn't consider how I see the world and how the world sees me. And I can hear now people saying, oh, keisha, but what if this had nothing to do with race?

And that whole notion implies that there is ever a moment, I cannot be black and as long as I am, it matters. She did not recover well that day. And in fact, she didn't recover well from years to come. And I think that is a significant thing people need to remember. Oh, just like Maya Angelo said, she said, people will forget what you said.

They will forget what you did, but they will never forget how you made them feel. And that day she gets this trauma label. Right. She gets to be defined by the experience she gave me and not who she is, right? And so if I just left her there, she wouldn't be the friend that she is to me today. But today she recovers in a way where she can take ownership and say, I'm sorry that I caused you harm.

I see you, I'm listening. I wanna understand and I don't wanna do it again. Right. She knows how to accept that I did a thing and she can talk about it in a way that is not just believable to me, but it's believable to her. And so the question that you need to ask is like, when things get hard, when you cause harm, when things are conversations like these are uncomfortable, how are you recovering?

Are you sitting in the discomfort? Are you taking ownership even though it doesn't feel good? Are you saying sorry and meaning it in a way that people believe you? How are you showing up when this is the environment that you're in, when you represent someone's trauma? How do you show up? How do you wanna show up?

Right? Answering that question intentionally impacts whether or not you're an anti-racist, and this is part of that iterative, ongoing process. If you are saying, sorry. Well, if you are taking ownership of the harm that you caused, well, If you are empathetically accepting the reality that you represent someone's trauma, well, if you are changing your behavior well, then you are doing anti-racism.

Well, if there's anything that you should take away from this particular episode is who do you need to be? In order to be an anti-racist, and the first thing you have to ask yourself is who are you in the dark? The second you have to ask, ask yourself is, am I trying to be this anti-racist because I need a checklist, or am I willing to do the work ongoing and make the necessary changes?

And finally, how do I show up when I cause harm? Or harm has been caused and I am the reflection of that harm, do I run away cuz it's difficult? Do I escape because it's too hard? Am I prioritizing my comfort over what I represent? And like I'm totally with this whole notion of saying not my circumstance, my monkeys like I'm totally for you, saying, "I didn't do it

So I'm not, I'm not taking any ownership of that." That's the stance that so many people take in terms of race. But it's not the same stance that we take in terms of deaf people. So like if you are willing to unpack and understand the perspective of deaf people and see through their eyes how they might have been oppressed and how that has shaped their lived experiences, their worldview.

If you're willing to do that work, but you're not willing to see how you as a white person may represent harm and trauma for black and brown people and people with marginalized identities, then ask yourself why and think about whether or not you wanna keep living in a way that promotes racist ideologies by leaving your racism in place.

So if I wasn't clear, This is your work to do. You're gonna have to answer the questions, but you can bring me along for the ride. Thanks for listening. On the next episode of his Ram, honest, we're gonna revisit the Keith Wann debacle and talk more importantly about when race disqualifies you from being in a space.

This has been, if I'm honest, I'm your host, Keisha Osborne, and this is a place where we have hard conversations. Until next time.