Unpacking My Interpreter's Decisions: A Buzz Corner Debrief

Today I am addressing the decisions my interpreter made. I start by framing the discussion. Talking about the blast from Linguabee, The harm... and then I return for a bonus on recovery. Ps. The ending may be redundant and... I had to say the thing. 

Transcript

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Welcome to, if I'm honest on today's episode, we are gonna try this singing video. Right. Okay. So on today's episode, I'd like to. Revisit the Linguabee conversation and talk specifically about the interpreter who interpreted for me, right? So first I have to frame this discussion. What I think is important is that you understand that every conversation I have on this platform is to you. You. This is not a space that I'm creating to bully or to antagonize or to talk about other interpreters. Instead, I want us to talk about ourselves, right? Like I think we contribute to the system and we have to dismantle all the problematic behaviors in ourselves. So I wanna frame this conversation properly. The second thing I'd like to do is talk about what did that interpreter. Get from Linguabee, what did the blast look like? What was the communication? Obviously I don't have his direct communication that he might've gotten, but I do have a blast that I'd like to share with you. I'd like to talk about whether that blast included prep or enough information, or what information did that interpreter have to make the decision that they made. To interpret this job. And then finally, I'd like to talk about the harm. And I don't wanna talk about the harm just for harm's sake, right? Like I wanna talk about the harm so that we can learn from the impact of the decisions that we make. And also, Let's talk about better decisions. What other options are available so that we can cause less harm to deaf people, to black and brown people, to hearing people, to everyone we provide interpretation services for. So come on in the room. Let's talk about it. All right, so let's frame this conversation. So, first thing I have to say is, again, I've said it once today, I'll say it again, is that this is a conversation. This is a platform that has conversations with the individual. I wanna have a conversation with you about you. Right? So today we're talking about the interpreter who voiced for me during the Linguabee episode, but like, That's an example that I'm providing. This is something that you can see that is concrete, but I'm hoping that you look at this interpreter and decisions that they made and you think back to a time that you made similar decisions. I'm hoping that you occupy a space of empathy and compassion for not only this interpreter, but for yourself, right? And then as you are sitting in this probably stupid, uncomfortable space that you stretch and you grow by learning from those decisions. Right. And I think what a lot of people did is they sought to find a space where they says, I'm a good hearing person. I'm a good anti-racist. Right? And they started apologizing. keisha, I'm so sorry this happened to you, keisha. I'm so sorry for this thing. Right. And I. Nope, that's not the space for this. Now, I was having a conversation in the comment section of the original video where I advertised the post on Linguabee and encourage people to look, and I wanna read that conversation to you. I wanna take the time to elucidate this interpreter's comments because I think they were powerful and profound, and this is important. Part of the framing, one of the things that she says is one thing I'm noticing. Now is a lot of critique around the interpreter's work. I wonder if this is a safe and comfortable place to go for many white anti-art allies to point a finger at another interpreter, to not have to face her own role in upholding the systems that got that interpreter there in the first place. She goes on to say, I was thinking of how easy it is to say, Wow, that interpreter sucked and they are bad. But as a good white person and an anti-audist ally, I'm good and would never do this. Therefore, I don't have to think about my part in upholding the system and I don't need to engage with the other learning that is happening here. The criticism is valid and the racism's so, so explicit. But for what US White interpreters, I wanna make sure we're not just finger pointing at someone who did it wrong. And then smugly sitting back knowing we are good. I respond to that and I say, I see what you mean. And yes, this exactly the same system that put white interpreters in the position will be, will put unqualified black interpreters there Next. Say all done. We did it. Check. We filled the job appropriately. And understanding that filling the job requires more than a skin match. But you have my attention in this situation. What ways do white interpreters need to interrogate how they uphold the system, even if they never take the job? She says. I think for one thing, we have to think about the times. We did take the job in less public spaces and ask how we got there. Have that conversation with our other white colleagues. She says we have to unpack the ways we bring racism and white supremacy into the work. Recognize when we do something racist, have open conversations with colleague about our own racism. Think about how we interact with agencies that are not doing anti-racism work, and we still benefit from working for them. That's the framing. And I think when we think about this, we think, I, I, I, what I want you to know is that this seems easy, right? Like, it seems like, well, it wasn't me, so I'm good. Right? And if you're thinking that and you're not doing the work that this interpreter points out, then you're not doing it right, right? You, you, you, you, you're not good. You're not good. And so, This space is a space that you interroga interrogate your own participation in a system that is standing strong because of the individuals who benefit from the system standing, right? So I don't want you to look at my interpreter, who I have not named, and I haven't named him because it's not about him, right? It's about us. Right. And I think if we see ourselves in this situation and we always see ourself within the conversation, then we can be agents of change and actually be good because we are always checking in with ourselves. And so I wanna frame the conversation in that way. And here's the thing, just because I'm framing the conversation in an antis shame form, work doesn't mean you will not experience pain. Or frustration, right? Or discomfort or shame. Like I can't prevent your feelings, right? But your feelings are your feelings, and I need you to take responsibility for them. And here's the thing, if you are uncomfortable about this conversation, if you are feeling disquieted and frustrated, and maybe even some shame, great. You're in the right space. Lean into that discomfort and have the conversation with you about why it's there, what you might've done wrong, how you might've contributed to the system, and fucking dismantle it. Like don't leave it in place, uh, or fight me in my, in my comment section, or my dms fight you because this fight is always gonna be you against you.'cause I'm not gonna be there to see or to check you or to correct you or to do any of that labor. It is not mine to do. It is yours. I think it's important that we frame this conversation properly and I think so because we harm deaf people when we don't understand our role, uh, in contributing to their harm. And so, I wanna talk about it. I knew I needed to talk about it because of all of the keisha's. I'm so sorry this happened to you. I was like, ah, I, I couldn't figure out why I had feelings about it. I was like, why am I feeling anyway? Why am I not just saying thank you? Well, firstly, and I said this in the debrief, it's because I didn't actually hear the interpretation until after the fact. So that's number one. Like I was receiving, apologies before I had even seen it. So that's number one. But number two, once I did finally get, you know, this barrage of, I'm so sorry this happened to you, I started feeling like, why does this feel, why does this feel some kind of way? And I, I don't know, but maybe it's because it seems as if people were saying, I recognize the harm enough to apologize that it happened to you and me recognizing it means I'm a good white person. I'm not sure. Right. But I want you to sit with that. If you sent me an apology, I'm not yelling at you. I want you to think about it. I don't know why I had feelings about it, but I do want you to think about what you are saying and if you actually sat. Thought about the ways in which you might've done the same thing before as, uh, that interpreter mentioned when you did take the job when it was not as public of a space and no one was there to see, you had no, uh, oversight and people didn't jump on your ass or syn apologies for the same harm you caused. Did you like, was it like a drive-by shooting, right? Like, did you cause this harm and leave and never say anything? That kind of harm has happened. We've seen it happen, right? Like we've seen it happen. And so I just want you to think about that, um, and sit with the discomfort of understanding your role and your responsibility, and that's this work. This is the work that we're doing. As uncomfortable as it might be, this is the work. Join me. Alright, so now having framed this conversation appropriately, I'd like to move on to humanizing the interpreter. So I've said this before in the preview to the preview, but I reached out to my interpreter. I wanted to know how he decided that he was qualified for this job, right? So what was the blast that Linguabee sent out? What information did they include? Did they include the speaker? Did they include prep materials? What information was included that this interpreter saw and said, yes, I'm qualified. I'm happy to do this job right? And this is not a dig at the interpreter. This is the decision that every interpreter makes on a daily basis. We receive, receive a blast from an agency or a firm, and we determine whether or not we are a good fit by having a conversation or saying from previous experience, we are qualified for this job. It's not a dig. Chill. Right? So what did he see from Linguabee? And I think Linguabee is really responsible for the blast, but also Linguabee is responsible for the list of interpreters they sent this job to, right? And so I wanna talk about that first. Unfortunately, I don't have his voice to humanize himself to show us what his thought process was or how he went about preparing for this job. But I do have a blast that was sent to me earlier today. Um, and I'd like to talk about it. So I'm not quite sure how to post it just yet, but I will make sure that I post the buzz corner, uh, blast from Linguabee so that you can see it for yourself. But for now, I'll just read it so the jump says it was sent Monday.

August 14th, 2023 at 11: 11:01

07 AM The subject is Tuesday, 8 15, 4 30 6:30 PM PDT VRI, other, uh, Linguabee's logos. At the top it says we need to find a female interpreter who can do a heavy voicing job for a guest during bus corner tomorrow ninth, August 15th, 7:30

PM to 9: 11:20

30 PM Eastern Standard time. Please come to the rescue. Underneath that it says, available remote requests. Checking on your availability for West Corner, requested by lingual B coordinator Linguabee as in parentheses. And then underneath it it says V R I, Tuesday, August 15th, 2023 from four 30

to 6: 11:40

30 PM uh, Pacific Standard Time. Is there a team? Yes. And then below that is another section. It says Buzz corner in all caps. Great skill. Voicing job please voicing for the death panelist. What is interesting about this and what we know already is there's not nearly enough information, especially for an advertisement that went out a month prior. Alright, so we have to unpack this blast because there's no information there, right? Like we'll get into it, we have to get into it. But before that, I think there are some important details that we've gotta also unpack and address in terms of Linguabee's responsibility, right? So the first thing is, when did they advertise that i b, a host on the show? They sent that advertisement out on August 1st, and when they confirmed that I would be a guest on the show, they did that on July 5th. Right, so you do the math, right? You do the math from July 5th to August 14th. That was the gap between making the request for interpreters. Right. And in that time, they never asked me one time if I had a preference. And they also did not have an industry standard to consider things like race or even an interpreter who has these conversations on a regular basis. Now, I'm making an assumption here. I'm not sure that my interpreter has those conversations, if that language is his repertoire, if he is engaged in these kinds of thought, if he's in consuming that kind of content, I have no idea. But what I can say is it isn't in his product. That's just the reality. Alright, so the next thing we have to talk about is the actual blast. There's nothing there. It literally looks like a copy and paste job. You don't have the title of the episode, which is unmasking racism within Professional Standards. It's not there, right? You don't have the name of the guest host. You don't have my podcast name, if I'm honest. It's not there. So how are these interpreters supposed to reasonably require? Prepare for a job that there's no information about, right? The only requirement for this job is great voicing skills, and at the bottom it says in the other section it says, voicing for deaf panelists. Well, we all know that keisha's not deaf, right? So this job has just been copy and pasted and rushed, sent out. 24 hours before the job. Now, one other important thing that I need to include is today a black interpreter reached out to me and said that she responded to the job at 7 11 21, right 14 minutes after the job post, and she said, who is the guest? And when? Later in the A, later in the day around 2:45 PM when Ling will be sent a response, they said to her, We already have someone, but you're not on our list. Would you like to be included on our list? Right? And so we have this black interpreter that could have done the job, who says she has voiced for Linguabee Before that was excluded because she's not on a list. Now, excluded might be a harsh word, but she wasn't able to do this job. My interpreter was chosen instead, right? That's a systemic issue and part of the reason that we have to talk about the systemic, systemic issue is something that we talked about in the debrief where interpreters should start to say, Hmm, I'm not qualified for that job. Right. Why didn't they stick with the need for a female interpreter? Right? Why didn't they stick with that? How did we end up with the interpreter that we got? Is it because the list of lingual b uh, buzz Corner interpreters, that pool is small and the only person on the approved list allowed, uh, was allowed to work that job? Is it because how did this black female interpreter get kicked off the list? There's so many unanswered questions, and that is Linguabee responsibility. So I also wanna challenge you to think about your responsibility in this, right? My interpreter is partially in this conversation because he saw nothing and said, pick me. All right, so we have unpacked the blast, but now we have to talk about what the interpreter's responsibility is for preparing for this job. So the first thing I will say is the black interpreter shared with me today that you don't get prep, right? You just don't get prep for this job. It's kind of like sink or swim. Right. Um, but what we do have on the advertisement where it says that keisha's going to be the Buzzin' host is one an ID description where it says I have multicolored locks, but two, it also says my name. And so it's possible to one. Google me, right? And some people have some feelings about that, but we're talking about prep here, so Google and two, it's also a way of saying to the agency, Hey, who's the host? What prep can I get from you? I don't see there's any prep here, right? But is there some some kind of way to prepare for Now this is important because when Linguabee approached me, they asked me to talk about the interpreter archetype. Right. It's a specific episode and when I talked to Bucky and Andrea in the pre-conference, um, meeting, I sent them the transcript. So that they could read it, right? So the idea that there was no prep available, that is not true. It's not true. Whether they gave this prep to any of the interpreters is a systemic issue that we cannot accept. Why? Because not having appropriate prep disadvantages the job and the work that we could do, and we cause harm as a result of not having it. Right? And there was prep available and. Did this interpreter ask for prep? Did this interpreter prep, like, I don't actually know the answer to that, but like what was there for him to prep? I am not sure. So that is something that I want us to think about. And I also wanna address the fact that on this job it says, team. Yes. Okay. So the people that I've talked to about interpreting Buzz Corner, all of them say the same thing. It's a solo job. There are three interpreters, and each interpreter is assigned to a deaf person or a host, and they voice for them all the way. Linguabee makes no accommodations to allow them to have a shared channel so they can feed one another so that they can support each other. They are just solo. A room, a virtual room full of interpreters. My goodness. That sounds tragic, right? Like there's a way to do that. Now, do I think that those interpreters get a pass because Linguabee doesn't make those accommodations for them? Absolutely not. We have a responsibility to make sure that we. Co-create the message. And so my philosophy of teaming is that we are co-creators. I'm responsible for your interpretation. You are responsible for mine. And so the fact that they didn't come up with their own system of making sure that they could support each other is both a systemic issue and an interpreter issue, right? And so I wanna talk about that because y'all, we have to do better, right? Like, what is my responsibility? Alright, so I also wanna pack the fact that. If keisha saw the job come through with nothing on it as is, I would not have taken that job, but I also would not have taken the job if it had everything on it, if it had unmasking racism and professional standards. If it had the hostess, keisha osborne, the host of, if I'm honest, podcast, if it had every single detail, if I was a subscriber to the podcast, I'm not sure I could have done me justice. Right. And I also wanna talk about the fact that there are layers to my identity that make me difficult, right? One that I don't think he knew is I'm a PhD candidate, right? And so the language that you choose to represent me are really, really important. Two, I don't have good practice interpreting cultural language, right? I don't have good practice interpreting my own language. Right. I don't talk as keisha in my interpretation. I don't talk as keisha when I interpret into a s l or into English. So I don't actually know how to represent me well, if that makes sense. While I am doing the work I. So I would not have taken this job, and there was a question that came up in the Q and A that said, oh, keisha should interpret for Andrea. I let it, I let it drop, baby didn't touch it, didn't pick it up with a 10 foot pole, not touching it. No, because I am not sure that I could represent Andrea's. Cultural language that I thought was very apparent. I don't think I could represent her well because I have no practice and she's one of very few deaf people I have seen use language in the way that she does. It is dynamic, it is beautiful, it is cultural. Identity is all in and up and through that thing. And I also communicated in the same way, but could I do it while I was interpreting? Not today. Maybe tomorrow, but not today. And so I wanna talk about that. Just like I would not have talked to me if I was the interpreter to do the job. I would not, as a regular interpreter, I would not talk to me about the job that I did. I also would not have done that job, right? Because I have the self-awareness and I also care about the harm I might cause. Now I'd like to ask you the question, are you engaging yourself in a way and self-analyzing and self-aware enough to know whether you are qualified and a good fit for the job? Are you asking the questions to make sure that even if you are given nothing, that you are qualified and a good fit for the job? And then if you don't have anything and you do find out that you are a good fit, how are you preparing for the job? Right. Do you reach out to the speaker? Do you send emails? What do you do? Do you find out that this host has a podcast? Do you listen to the episode? What do you do to prepare for the job and answering these questions? Because there was a series of decisions that were made to get to the final product. I'd say there were lots and lots and lots of decisions that were made that we can impact today, but I don't want us to act like yes. Job and that's it, right? And so I wanna talk about that and I wanna make sure that you are engaging these agencies, these firms, whoever, about whether or not you are qualified to do a job. Now I personally only work for one firm. Just right now. That's what it looks like right now. And I'm often like, you think I'm qualified for this? I just asked this the other day. Do you think I'm qualified for this? And he says to me, I think you're qualified for a lot of things. You just think less of yourself. Does that make me better? No. It doesn't make me better. And I'm not trying to create a comparative analysis between decisions that I make and decisions he make. This is about you and I. Right. I'm talking about how I would make the decision. I want you to think about how you would make the decision for you, right? Because the goal is to do no harm, right? And so because harm happens here, we have to talk about that, right? So I don't necessarily feel like I need to classify or label. The job that was done. I think that you can do that. I'm hoping that you all saw the, the episode by now with Linguabee, and if you have yet to do so, please go over there and watch and make sure that you listen to the interpretation and then you can label it yourself, right? Like, I don't need to do that. And let's think about how he got there, right? Like part of the reason that he got there is because he had nothing on this blast and he likely had no preparation. That's just the reality of things. Right? But then we get inside the job and not having that, right. I'm not sure in terms of his identity and the conversation that he's having, and I said this already today, but I'm not sure if he's engaged in this conversation at all. But he shows up and he realizes I'm wasn't for a black woman. Yep. Let's keep going. Now, one of the things that we mentioned in the debrief is that it would've been really powerful for the interpreter to say, whoop, hold on. Uh, this isn't working right? I don't have a team. We're not teaming together, and we are causing a lot of harm by not being able to support one another. Right? This doesn't work for me or for my interpreter to say, I am not qualified for this job. Now, I bring this up because, This is not something that we are taught in ITPs. We are often taught that bad interpretation or it's implied right, that a bad interpreter or a bad access is better than no access. And so we carry this responsibility that if we leave the job that we are bad. That, that there is, there is shame there that we occupy. I am bad. I'm a bad interpreter. Right. We don't think that if I don't do well at providing the access that is required at the standard and level that is required, that I'm bad. But if I just say, we can't do this today, then I'm bad. And I think that is something that we have to address as a community. Right, because I feel beholden to this message, and I want us to think about it, and I want us to be in the practice of saying, do no harm at all costs That. I am not qualified for the job and I'm causing harm because I am misinterpreting the message and misrepresenting the person speaking. I remove myself from that space Right now I'm saying that, but I have a lot of times early in my career where I did not do that and I cried in my car, crocodile te tears because of the harm that I caused. I was aware of it. I knew it was like that drive by mentioned at the beginning. I went in, it was a one-on-one. I knew I was botching that interpretation, and I never said anything to the deaf person. I went and sat in my car and cried about it. I carry the shame because I knew that if I said I'm not qualified to be here, then it derails their access and it derails everything and that makes me bad. So I'm speaking from experience, right? What this interpreter did that day, I have absolutely done right? Like I've done it. I, I've been there. I've been in a place that I should not have been, that I wasn't qualified to be. I have caused that harm. Now, here's where we have to keep talking, right? Because we can't just say, well, I've done it before. Let me do it again. We have to figure out how not to do it again. And maybe some of you are great interpreters and could walk in a room and not cause that kind of harm. Good for you. I love that. But for the people who have done it, come here, come here. Lemme talk to you. You're not bad. Let's find a way to make different decisions now there. From there we have to think about the harm that was caused. Now sure, no one died. Right. There was no house on fire, didn't burn down with the entire family inside. No one died. But could I use this for a job? Talk? What if I was deaf? Close your eyes. Imagine that I was deaf and I was speaking to an audience of my peers. Think about it. This shit happens to deaf people all the time. What if someone from the audience was hearing and didn't know a s l would they have had access to my message? What if someone was deaf and needed the use of the voice interpreters or the caption? Would they have access to my a s l so we can pretend as if no harm happened? If harm happened. Right. And I think if we think about other situations that this same thing happens in, we can fully see the harm, it would be a missed opportunity to think that just 'cause it's buzz corner. And the audience here are interpreters, are deaf people that no harm, no foul. Absolutely not. And I'm not willing to allow you or myself to not engage in this thought without evaluating when do I cause this harm. And how do I cut it the fuck out? Right? And so that's what I'm challenging you to do is to think about that, right? And again, I'm just using this interpreter as an example to talk about myself, but also for you to talk about yourself for this thing is human. These decisions were human and relatable, right? But harm happened. Harm happened. And so how do we think about what harm was caused and how do we make better decisions so that we can be better for deaf communities, but also for marginalized communities? And there's a spoiler alert here. We also serve hearing people as well. And can you imagine if they need access to a message that you are supposed to be voice interpreting that they can't access because. The interpreter is not doing their job well or you are not doing your job well. Right. That messes up their ability to engage in a conversation effectively. Harm happened here. Right? And so I want us to think about, this is really uncomfortable. I don't like it. I feel triggered. I feel like she's bullying this interpreter. I feel like you know she is being mean. Let's just remove him for a minute. I'm gonna talk to you about you. Have you done this? And how can you not do it again? Okay. And guess what? I'm asking myself too. So together we can look at this Linguabee situation and we can think about this interpreter and their product and the harm they would cause. Right. And I think another way to think about this is to talk about the cultural nuance of the job. One of the decisions that was made when the interpreter was voicing for um, me, is he said I had curly hair. Now I have loc'd hair, right? I have locks, right? They're multicolored. It was in the ID description for me on the Linguabee post and advertisement for me as a buzzing host, right? And so I wanna point that out. That one, the interpreters had a hard time describing my hair. One interpreter said dreadlocks, right? Which is no longer used in in the black community. We say locs now. And so, And then there's also these other cultural nuances, and I think this goes back to the conversation we were talking about interpreting the N word. So you are telling me that you can't effectively capture my hairstyle, but you wanna say, nigga, you see how that math don't math, right? There are so many layers to understanding identity and language and culture and how all of them come together to create a message. If you can't capture all three layers, why you wanna. Capture language that is not accessible to you anyway. Right. So I want us to keep thinking about that. There are reasons that I think that this interpreter wasn't a good fit for this job, and partially it's because he didn't understand my lived experience, right? He didn't understand how I talked about the thing, not just because he hadn't heard it, but he didn't understand my world of view and what I experienced and how I even arrived to the place where I'm a podcast host in the first place talking about racism and oppression within this field. I got tired of seeing it. Right. Like I got tired of just like putting up with all of this junk from my co interpreters, my teams from deaf people, from the shit that I was seeing in ITPs. I got tired of it. Right? And when you don't live that experience, it's also gonna be difficult for you to access the language. So if you can't access the language for just lived experience, how can you access. I'll wait. You know, like I will wait. Right. The reality is that you can't, and so I want you to think about that. Everything has cultural nuance and he didn't have access to it, like from the original greeting. Hi there, I'm keisha. I, it was the first opening of the, the, the. Podcast, right? It was the first thing I said and I was like, oh, never heard my self represented through the voice of a white man. And it was interesting, and I think this is why we have to talk about the industry standard should be that we try as much as humanly possible to match culture, identity, and language from both the deaf person and the interpreter. That should be industry standard. It should also be my standard of analyzing and evaluating whether I'm a good fit or not. Now, here's the reality. I'm educated. I can, can't just work with black people. I can't access the language of white people, but I can't always access that, which is why I said I probably am not a good fit for Andrea. Right? And so I'm not trying to. Pigeonhole us into exclusionary thinking that you must interpret for white people and you must interpret for black people and you must interpret. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there are moments in time when there are interpretations that we are to provide and we are suited to provide the voice for in higher sex things that that should be part of our considerations of whether or not we're qualified. Are you doing that work? Right? Are you doing it? I hope so. Thank you so much for joining me. Um, we'll see how this goes. Hi, I'm back. So I sat down and recorded the entire session, right? I recorded it, I sent it to people. I talked about it. I thought about it. I went to work. I came back, and it's bothering me. And part of the reason that I'm being bothered is because over the last four or five days, someone told me that in the debrief with Terp Tap in Tiffany and Paris, That we bullied the interpreters. And that bothers me because that's not how I roll. It is not the expectation. I don't like that characteristic of our field. It's not the culture I want to have here. And I feel like I've made that pretty clear and it still bothering me. I still feel like people will listen to the entire episode and they walk away feeling like. Keisha bullies people, oh, I'm worried. Am I gonna be next on the podcast? And here's the thing about it. If you have those thoughts and you're not able to have a. Normal critique about the work that we do and how we participate in oppressive systems, because that's what we're talking about here. What we're talking about is when we do not provide the appropriate and the adequate access to the people that we serve, we are oppressing them. Period, point blank. There's no negotiation about that. And so what I'm asking us to do is hold ourselves accountable to challenge ourselves, to feel the feelings of when we do fuck up, and then to also. Navigate this space in a way that we don't make those same mistakes again, but we also have to do one of the most important things that I talk about in this work, and that's recovery. I didn't talk about it in the episode, but like when you mess up, what I did when I sat in my car that day and cried was I cried and I woes me and I didn't recover. Well, I didn't have that, but what I kept doing is doing the work. I kept trying to improve my skills. I kept talking about it. I, I still today will work a conference with someone who has better skills than me. I will sit at their feet and ask a million questions and you can ask. Anyone who's worked with me, if I do that, it's what I do, right? I'm always working to get better so that I, a black woman who has marginal, uh, intersectional, marginal identities do not participate in the system that oppresses me to anyone else. And I'm like, I can hear now the people who are like, oh, she's still, there's still bullying. I can hear it. I can hear it. Chill. And I wanna say that because like, yo, like I could not have invited my mom to this presentation. She would've not had access to my message, the whole of it. My mom would not have access, had access to my message. And I would not have wanted my mom to experience that kind of oppression. And I don't want anyone to experience it. So if you are feeling some type of way about the way that I am challenging the work, I'll say it again. Good. Sit with that thing and figure out how to recover well. Alright.